Robert Kojder chats with Danny and Michael Philippou about their debut film Talk to Me…
You may not recognize the names Danny and Michael Philippou, but you might have heard of YouTube sensation RackaRacka. The channel, run by these brothers, skyrocketed in popularity thanks to often controversial but well-crafted, imaginatively entertaining skits, ranging from dangerous stunts to mock battles between superheroes to turning Ronald McDonald into a backyard wrestler, and more.
There is a wealth of material to sift through, including a recent video that documents taking their debut film, Talk to Me, to this year’s Sundance Film Festival. Having such videos at my disposal made this one of the more unique and fascinating interviews I’ve ever conducted because I felt their passion for making this film while coming up with questions.
What really sticks out, though, is how personable, excitable, and funny Danny and Michael Philippou are, even while giving thoughtful answers. I also tried my best to ensure that it came out while reading this transcription. Nevertheless, Talk to Me is a fantastic debut pulling from their experiences with social media fame to riff on the possession genre, while also creating compelling characters and telling a solid story. Enjoy the interview below…
Danny and Michael Philippou: [crowding the camera as they connect to the Zoom call] Did you like that jump scare?!
Robert Kojder: [laughs] Yes! It’s lovely to meet you. I dug the movie. Initially, it’d be easy to assess these characters as dumb or unlikeable. So what made you confident that you could build a movie based on “play stupid games, win stupid prizes” and find the humanity in those characters and get viewers caring for them?
Danny Philippou: Well, I think teenagers, in general, are always making weird, stupid decisions. Their brains aren’t fully formed yet; they’re experimenting with life and doing dangerous things. So that just felt real and something to empathize with.
Michael Philippou: Yeah! I never found any of the characters unlikeable. Maybe it’s an Australian thing. They make some horrible decisions, but I think you can understand why.
DP: [jokingly chastising his brother, implying Michael also makes stupid decisions]: You can! Some people can’t.
RK: I’m unfamiliar with your YouTube channel, but I spent about an hour watching different videos preparing for this interview, and I was wildly entertained, but what struck me is that I never expected a pair of hyperactive dudes like yourselves who have Ronald McDonald deathmatches or superhero battle skits to go the character-driven horror route for a first film. So what made you choose that route?
DP: I never felt I could be super personal on RackaRacka. It was always very specific content for a specific audience, and the things we liked watching were very different from what we were making on YouTube. So I knew that for our feature film, I wanted to explore proper writing and be more vulnerable and personal on the page, which we could never do before. We knew we wanted those strong characters to build a strong story.
MP: From watching our videos, you would think our debut film would be very different. But it’s similar to what we’ve enjoyed watching since we were kids. That’s the material we respected, maybe because it was work we hadn’t done. We’d made all these crazy action things. So watching those films wasn’t really engaging, whereas the really thought-out films with great stories, characters, and narratives. That’s what we really respected.
RK: Going back to the personal element, I noticed in one of your YouTube videos that there is a non-blood-related woman named Nelly in your life that encouraged your filmmaking throughout your childhood. So was that one reason that the Mia character, she has a second family and support through that?
DP: Yeah, yeah! That relationship molded a bunch of things. She was an older sister of our friend, and she really took us in and looked after us, and she was always a big sister role model. We were a bit delinquent as kids, little criminals around the neighborhood. She steered us on a better, more creative path, and we would always make stuff and premiere it for her specifically. There was no audience, just me, Michael, and our friend Tamani, showing it to her on the weekend. We love her to death, and we have her last name in the high school, named it after her, and more. Having her come to the Sundance premiere was just amazing.
RK: It still feels like there is a stigma surrounding YouTube that, these videos or skits that you create might be beneath a snobby film critic or a sophisticated person, but here you are, you’ve made this film that puts many actual working directors, let alone first time filmmakers to shame. So how does it feel to be a YouTube symbol and a torch-carrying inspiration for others who want to accomplish more?
MP: Yeah, I think there’s a certain stigma that comes from being a YouTuber where people go, “Oh, they’re just YouTubers!” But I feel even directors from the 60s and 70s or whenever, if they had YouTube as a platform, as a launching pad, that’s exactly what they would’ve been using. I remember us speaking to George Miller (Mad Max: Fury Road), and he was saying, if YouTube was around when he was making stuff, that’s exactly where he would’ve been. You get access to an international audience with a click of a button. If you’re an artist, you’re an artist. It doesn’t matter what medium you come from, and if us doing it and being successful helps other YouTubers gain that courage to take the leap, it’s possible if you’re gonna put in the hard work. We just made a film we were proud of and liked, and we didn’t know how it would be received. So for it to be received this way is truly heartwarming, and we’re so thankful and happy.
DP: I also think there are many films based on YouTubers where the YouTuber really didn’t care about the film, and bigger companies were trying to profit off their name and their image and just trying to make a quick buck. There’s been a bunch of bad B-grade YouTuber movies, but I think so many people on the platform have that aspiration to be filmmakers. A24 is potentially funding this film with the Backrooms Kid (Kane Parsons), who made viral shorts. For those people that wanna be filmmakers first, I think that companies should trust them all.
RK: I agree with you. Can you pinpoint the moment when the two of you felt like you could take all those skills you learned from making YouTube videos, to make a feature-length film?
DP: 2018 was when I knew I wanted to focus on screenwriting again. We just felt like we’d done so much practice and buildup, and our main goal was always to be a filmmaker. It felt like it was time.
MP: We weren’t afraid of the actual physical making of whatever our first film would be. It was more about having a strong enough script, and something we were proud of that would work as a standalone thing that we could use as a base to go in and make a film. That was the most important thing to us.
RK: How did you come up with the idea for an embalmed ceramic hand as the object to interact with these spirits?
DP: The hand came in around the second draft of the movie. Thematically hands are already such a big motif and a reoccurring image in the film that it just landed and felt right. It was already in different scenes, and initially, the script just said “haunted object,” but it felt right as soon as we found the hand.
MP: It’s a physical representation of everything we discussed.
RK: I’ve noticed in YouTube videos that Sophie Wilde matches your energy as creators and individuals. Was that important when it came to casting the lead for the film?
MP: It’s about working with people that didn’t have big egos and were there to collaborate. For all the cast, when we saw their auditions, it was difficult to find them, but when we found them, it’s like, “Oh, that’s, that’s right. That’s perfect!” Speaking with them, going through scenes with them, and then we knew immediately with them.
DP: Everyone was so committed that even after shooting days, we’d all go back to our producer’s house, watch films together, break down each day, and figure out what was working and what wasn’t. We went in there for those five weeks of production, living and breathing the film and nothing else. It was such an overstimulating, amazing set. It was an amazing experience.
RK: Is there a moment while filming the movie that you just knew Sophie Wilde was giving this terrific revelatory performance?
MP: We knew from her audition. She read like three different scenes that had three different emotions, and she just nailed them all on the head. We would edit on set, and in between days when we edited together, when we put some sound and music into the first possession, that’s when we felt like we had something special. When that sequence came together, and we put the music in, we’re like, “Oh wow, this feels like we’re onto something here.”
DP: [agrees]
MP: That was the first time we had properly edited everything together, and something about it felt special.
DP: I remember editing together the sequence where Mia’s confronting a demon, and she gives this amazing performance. I remember editing that together, and I just cried out of happiness because I couldn’t believe how everything was coming together, the performance she gave, and all the different elements that all the different heads of departments did for us. It was so much more perfect than we could have imagined.
RK: Speaking of the other departments, I noticed you’re aware it’s not just about visuals; sound design is also important. That head smashing is viscerally uncomfortable. So, can you talk about working with the sound design team?
DP: Shout out to Emma Bortignon, who was our sound designer. She was so incredible.
MP: Sound’s always been important to us. Even from little kids, we realized the power of sound because we were working with nothing. So we used sound effects and music to make it look like much more was happening. As we developed as filmmakers and realized that sound could convey so much through atmosphere, you can tell so much more of a story. Collaborating with these amazing artists and putting together the sound design and the music was a dream come true.
We want to, especially with music on the next film, have it as part of the pre-production process, not just at the end. I can’t wait to do that for our next film because the score was difficult to nail. I wanna have more time with that next time. So right now, when we write scenes, we send it off to a composer, and he’s been doing stuff that can be part of the script, in the bones of the story as opposed to just found at the end. That, that’s an exciting aspect for the next film.
RK: Do you know what your next film will be, and would you ever star in one of your movies?
DP: I don’t think I’d ever star in one of my movies. I’d be too embarrassed and know I’m not that good of an actor, especially not to try and put myself in a film and direct at the same time. I think you [talking to Michael] are better in front of the camera.
MP: We’re in our own stuff out of necessity. We do a lot of things ourselves because no one else would. I’m not opposed to acting, but I’d rather be able to look at everything from a director’s point of view outside of that than worrying about a performance. Maybe in someone else’s film, depending on the script, I’d do something. But for our stuff, I can’t see myself acting. That could change. I don’t know.
RK: You mentioned knowing George Miller. What if he came up to you and said, we wanna kill you both for a scene in a Mad Max movie? Would you do it?
MP: No, I’m in! I’m there!
DP: I’ll get the gun, and I’ll be the one to shoot him! [finger-gun gestures towards Michael]
[Everyone laughs]
RK: Given the characters are possessing themselves for fun, I want to know the dumbest thing either of you has done while chasing a high or social media fame. I also realize I might regret asking this question.
DP: Michael getting run over by cars constantly!
MP: There’s a thing that I guess I’ve had since I was a kid of really pushing things physically, and if it’s in the form of telling a story. There was some dangerous YouTube stuff that I’d never want anyone else to perform because it’s like something in me, I don’t know, this weird adrenaline seeking that I’d always just want to do it myself and put myself in these situations where sometimes you could actually die. Once it’s in my head, I’ve gotta get it out.
I remember once, after we finished high school, we were going cliff jumping with a bunch of friends, and they were getting jobs, and we were gonna pursue film, and we were doing like a media course, and I was on top of this massive cliff. I climbed higher than everyone else for some reason to see how high I could get. Then everyone’s like, don’t jump. I wasn’t gonna jump, but now that they have said it, I’ve got to. I looked down and saw that there was a ledge I’d have to commit to jumping off to clear it. In my head, I was, “Oh, okay, if I jump, then it’s like, that’s us taking a leap into filmmaking, and I’m just gonna go all in.
DP: That makes no sense!
MP: I didn’t want to smash off the side of the cliff! So I really committed to the jump. I pushed past this psyche, jumped out, and landed in the water. I’m like, “Well, let’s go do filmmaking!”.
DP: I don’t know how that correlates!
MP: That’s just the way the brain works, I guess
RK: The screenplay was written alongside Bill Hinzman. Is that someone you’ve worked with before on YouTube?
DP: He always hated our YouTube stuff!
MP: He bags the shit out of our YouTube stuff!
DP: He roasts YouTube and us. But I’ve always collaborated with him on short films and bigger-form ideas. To have him in my corner and to be able to bounce stuff between him has been amazing.
MP: He’s such a goldmine when it comes to scripts. He has these massive folders of scenes and moments for every genre. He has such an understanding of film language, and he can break them down. You name the film, and he’ll break it all down for you. Having someone like that in the corner to help wrangle some of our vision and put it into a cohesive story and understand the themes we’re trying to say. Sometimes we’d write stuff, we wouldn’t understand what we were trying to say, and he’d help nail it.
DP: He would say you’re hitting on these elements and tell us the story.
MP: He would say these are the unconfronted childhood traumas that you need to go to a therapist to see.
[Everyone laughs]
RK: So the montage sequence of the teenagers messing around with their possessions is so great and funny. Is there anything about those possessions you loved, but had to cut for time or some other reason?
MP: Yeah! So we had two hours to shoot that sequence, and we had so much to get through, and we were going balls to the wall with these two cameras. Zoe Terakes did this amazing possession that we shot wide, and when I saw it, I was like [emphatically gesturing to the camera] can you do that again, Zoe!? She said yes. We shot this amazing performance. Zoe just delivered it, and when I watch her, I get shivers, and I wish we had time to show this more. We show it for three seconds in the montage, but there’s a two-minute performance. It is unbelievable, and I love watching it, even to this day.
DP: [nods in agreement]
RK: What’s the most challenging aspect of balancing humor, blood, subversion, and fun in a film versus a YouTube video?
DP: I knew that we always wanted to have that balance of tone, and we were super inspired by Bong Joon Ho (Parasite) and his way of jumping between serious moments and comedic moments. The challenge was seeing if an audience would go for it. It’s just one of those things you put together, and then you hope for the best. So there’s no way of really knowing if it’s gonna work. You have to take the leap and try.
RK: Is there one fellow YouTuber out there that you really hope sees and loves this movie?
DP: I really want Super Eyepatch Wolf to watch it. He’s one of my favorite YouTubers ever. I love him so much to death. I’d love for him to see the film. We love him.
RK: Thank you so much, though. The movie’s awesome. You guys are hilarious and so much fun to talk to.
DP & MP: Yes, you too! Good chatting.
RK: I’m gonna keep watching more of your videos too. There are so many to get to.
DP & MP: Thank you. Cheers. Have a nice day!
This piece was written during the 2023 WGA and SAG-AFTRA strike. Without the labor of the writers and actors currently on strike, Talk to Me wouldn’t exist.
Robert Kojder is a member of the Chicago Film Critics Association and the Critics Choice Association. He is also the Flickering Myth Reviews Editor. Check here for new reviews, follow my Twitter or Letterboxd, or email me at MetalGearSolid719@gmail.com
