Robert Kojder chats with The Integrity of Joseph Chambers star Clayne Crawford about what it means to be a man, unlearning gun safety, the dangers of firearms, working with director Robert Machoian and sound designer Peter Albrechtsen, and balancing comedy and drama…
There’s a chance readers might know who Clayne Crawford is should they have seen the TV show reboot of Lethal Weapon, where he takes on the role of Briggs. But those who saw him in 2021’s The Killing of Two Lovers know he can also be a tense, dramatic force.
The Integrity of Joseph Chambers offers both sides of that equation, starting as a harmless comedy about a dimwit with something to prove before veering into a tragic tale of consequence. On-screen alone for most of the running time as a city slicker financial salesman now in a rural area looking to adapt to his environment and become a skilled hunter despite knowing nothing about guns whatsoever, Clayne Crawford flexes his acting muscles, searching for and delivering a fully formed, engrossing character to observe. It was delightful speaking to him, so please enjoy the interview below:
To my knowledge, The Integrity of Joseph Chambers is now your second time working with director Robert Machoian (The Killing of Two Lovers is the other). What made you want to work with him again, and why do you think you work so well together?
Robert and I complement one another. He is highly technical, a photographer by trade, and a photography professor at B.Y.U. The frames he creates are so beautiful. And he allows the actor to explore the character without restraints or restrictions. His scripts are so sparse that it leaves so much room for interpretation. Again, he gives an actor the space to create freely. Robert is so focused on his team and ensuring that the camera captures everything perfectly that there’s confidence. He knows I’m going to handle the actors because I cast all of them, which is why it’s usually people that are my friends that come in and do these things. I know that from a technical side, I have zero to worry about. In post, we always take our films to sound designer Peter Albrechtsen in Copenhagen. He and David Barber elevate everything. It’s a good team, and it comes from everyone having confidence in the other person.
You mentioned being given the space to explore the character. I feel that helps a lot with this movie because you’re on screen alone for most of it. So I’m curious, what kind of things did you improvise or learn about the character while you were making the movie?
So much. The film was originally going to be shot in Utah. Two weeks before production started, we shifted to Alabama, where I have a farm, and my wife and family have been living since Covid. We wanted to move it for many reasons, but when I got it here, I realized that the script, particularly hunting, did not work geographically for this location. What I mean by that is, in Utah, the vegetation is very open, with large trees and not a lot of underbrush because of the climate, environment, and altitude. So you can hunt deer, and you’re tracking and walking all day long, and you may see something 300 yards away, and you can either approach that animal or shoot it from a long range.
You can’t see five feet into the forest here in the south. It’s so thick. So there is no tromping around looking for animals. You sit in a deer stand and wait until the deer walks out in front of you, then you take your shot. The way that Robert had written a lot of Joe exploring the forest didn’t necessarily reflect our shooting environment. So a majority of that was improvised. I tried to approach it like a 12-year-old boy with a gun who had zero experience holding that weapon. And I thought that alone would create a lot of tension and dread, especially with the deer stand and swinging the gun through the bushes as he is walking around. The scene when I’m coming up and down that deer stand, my dad can’t watch that scene sitting down. He’s seen it in a couple of theaters during festivals, which makes him physically ill, watching me unlearning everything that he and my grandfather and uncles had taught me about weapon safety. It was a lot of fun creating those moments.
That’s funny. This movie does shift from black comedy to a heavy and thoughtful character study. Was there any trepidation in taking on that challenge? Or did you feel you could pull it off?
I was hoping I could pull it off. I’d gained much confidence doing Lethal Weapon as it relates to the comedy side of things. I realized that my approach to comedy was like Jack Lemmon’s style of playing it a little straight but also being animated sometimes.
So I felt I could pull it off, but I have to go back to Peter Albrechtsen. He had just done a great job on The Killing of Two Lovers. He was nominated for an Oscar the previous year for The Cave, and he jumped on. So watching him create those moments, like the deer stand when you hear that golf course clap or the baseball stuff and then the singing on the rock, I never anticipated it being that lighthearted or, as you said, black comedy, but what was interesting is that as he’s on this journey, you’re thinking “oh no, something really bad’s gonna happen to this poor idiot out in this forest.” And then slowly, you go, “oh, he’s the monster.” I thought that was the fun twist of this one, which, if I’m being honest, was the collaboration of Peter and what he did with the sound design that helped that come to life.
One of my favorite scenes during the isolation of hunting is when Joseph fantasizes about pitching in the World Series. Can you tell me what it was like shooting that scene?
Look, I was throwing the rocks, and they ricocheted like crazy! We set up the camera, and everyone was far away from me. None of that was scripted. It was supposed to be just throwing rocks at a tree, but I was like, man, I never just threw a rock at a tree. If I was ever chucking something or doing it, there was a story behind it, and nine times out of ten, I was either winning the Super Bowl or the World Series. As I had mentioned before, I felt like Joe was a 12-year-old boy, and he was in the woods, and there was something just freeing about it. And he tapped into something within himself that maybe he hadn’t experienced in 20 years. So as I was doing that scene, it was just fun and easy. But I must say again, Peter, adding in those turn-of-the-century sounds of a baseball game, like you’re at a 1905 game, absolutely elevated the piece so much.
Both of Robert’s films have intricate sound design and mixing. Can you talk about how else that affects your performances if it does at all?
Peter sent back that opening scene when David points the gun at his wife, climbs out the window, and starts running down the street. I’m playing it for the first time, and I’m hearing this creaking, a revolver clicking in and out of rotation, and a door slamming and the buzzing of an old truck. And I’m like, what the hell am I hearing? At first, it was almost off-putting, but then I realized it was the character’s mentality. We’re getting a true insight into his mental state. That was something I had never expected before.
He elevated the film so that these silent moments of reflection for my character were now immersive as they related to an audience experience. I knew Peter would elevate these quiet moments in The Integrity of Joseph Chambers in a way that I could never anticipate. Much of the time, it takes a lot of pressure off of me. I don’t have to do that much as an actor because I know that through sound design, Peter will help the audience track where I’m at emotionally without me having to act as it were, as opposed to just being present in a sense. So it has been really rewarding as an actor.
There’s a commentary on the dangers of firearms and toxic masculinity here regarding proving oneself through hunting. Are these things you feel passionate about addressing on screen?
It was a solid opportunity to take a guy who was somewhat of a fish-out-of-water, a man who had grown up in an urban environment, a city possibly, and his definition of what a man is that is quite different than that definition of someone from a rural small town. It’s about that isolation from the city. And I thought it important to have Joe in this physical shift. I think we’re all kind of there as men, figuring out what it means to be a man. It’s much different than what it was for our grandfathers and possibly how we were raised to be men. As the pendulum continues to swing, we’re just trying to find that happy medium: can I be a lion and a lamb simultaneously?
Can I be a provider, and can I also take steps back? For Joe, I thought it was yes. As it relates to a message, I thought it was important to see this guy navigate his ego, navigate wanting to fit in. This world is somewhat uncertain as we all continue to transition and learn and gain empathy. From a weapons standpoint, I think that a lot of the time, we associate gun violence with bad people. Unfortunately, even someone with good intentions, even admirable, can be very dangerous and violent. That was an important message, and this movie provided a great opportunity to show that these things are deadly without proper training and knowledge.
Thank you very much. The movie is great, and it was wonderful talking to you today.
Robert. It was such a pleasure talking to you, and I appreciate you watching the film and taking the time to talk.
Many thanks to Clayne Crawford for taking the time for this interview. Read our review of The Integrity of Joseph Chambers here.
Robert Kojder is a member of the Chicago Film Critics Association and the Critics Choice Association. He is also the Flickering Myth Reviews Editor. Check here for new reviews, follow my Twitter or Letterboxd, or email me at MetalGearSolid719@gmail.com
