Robert Kojder chats with Sing Sing stars Clarence “Divine Eye” Maclin, Sean “Dino” Johnson, and Paul Raci…
One of the more unique interviews I’ve ever gratefully had the opportunity to conduct, formerly incarcerated and fully reformed Clarence “Divine Eye” Maclin and Sean “Dino” Johnson, playing versions of themselves in Greg Kwedar’s Sing Sing, which is centered on that maximum-security correctional facility and its proven RTA (Rehabilitation Through the Arts) program, came into Chicago alongside Oscar-nominated acting veteran Paul Raci (portraying the real-life play director Brent Buell working with the convicted persons). They represented the film on behalf of its opening night selection as part of the 2024 Chicago Critics Film Festival.
Even with some minor Internet stability issues that kept me focused on simplifying my questions and getting them out quickly, everyone was a delight to talk to and open about their lives, how they got into character, what this film project meant to them, what they would like to do in the future, and more. With that said, I tried to keep the questions light and more on the fun side, curious about what it was like to work with the outstanding and also Oscar-nominated Colman Domingo, what was left on the cutting room floor during an amusing rehearsal montage, and whether or not the cast realized there was a playful Fear The Walking Dead reference.
As for this film itself, it’s a beautiful story about empathy, the therapeutic power of the arts, some flawed aspects of the justice system, and primarily a moving reminder that these people are human and do have the capacity to reform. All the formerly incarcerated involved are tremendous on-screen at playing versions of themselves and also deserve to be referred to as legitimate actors. Clarence, Sean, and Paul all gave thoughtful answers, and we also had some fun with the questions. It’s an honor to highlight this exceptional film and the importance of this program. Enjoy the full interview below:
I love the movie. It’s very emotional and powerful, so I’m happy to talk to you all. Sean, you have my favorite line in the movie: “We are here to become human again.” That line is integral to the story being told. So, can you talk about how that scene and the delivery of the monologue came together?
Sean “Dino” Johnson: Well, the reality for us was, whenever we got together, and we were in the arts engaged, we would leave the reality of our life behind, and we would get so deep into the art of the work that we were doing, that we would actually leave prison, during those moments. And it was imperative that all of us left all the politics, the shenanigans, the prison stuff and leave it outside the door. And during that moment, I brought that stuff into our sacred circle. It was an emotional thing. That’s our sacred space.
Can you talk about the power of community through theatre?
Clarence “Divine Eye” Maclin: When you tell a story about yourself or at least one aspect of your reality, you never realize how many people that story is connected to. So many people in the audience are going through the very same thing but don’t know how to put it into words or don’t know how to find a solution on their own. This is one of the powers of theater and what it was originally intended for; people to come together to see that you’re not the only one going through whatever it is that you’re going through.
Greg Kwedar co-wrote a similar film that featured real jockeys playing themselves. What do you think makes Greg such a good partner to work with on this film or stories about communities with real people playing versions of themselves?
Paul Raci: He’s a crybaby!
CDEM: He got really into the story. He was so involved, and he wanted to keep the integrity of us. He had us in mind. He wanted to keep our story genuine and true and not disrespect in any kind of way, and I think that’s what made us gravitate towards him.
PR: Yeah, Greg is a very sensitive, vulnerable man. To have him leading us inside an actual prison, this is no Hollywood set; this is an actual prison set here. He was open and honest with us, and that kind of let everybody be free to open themselves up and be vulnerable. So it starts at the top. When a guy comes in there and shows his heart to you, it’s kind of hard not to want to pour your heart back to him. So he was the perfect leader in this particular story He led us through.
SDJ: It was amazing working with Greg. The creative freedom was amazing because he would let us find the truth of the scene. If you go on a lot of sets, it’s like, “Okay, wait. Okay, action. Okay, cut”. This and that. Not, “How do you feel about that scene? Do you think we went where we were supposed to go with it?” So that was the best.
Clarence, you have such tremendous chemistry with Colman Domingo here, and I don’t think the film would work without that chemistry. Can you talk about the early Zoom calls with him and finding that chemistry?
CDEM: As you know, we started this rehearsal during Covid. So we were doing a lot of Zoom meetings, a lot of Zoom rehearsals, and stuff like that. And early on, just through the humor, the banter… he gave me a lot of room to express myself and how I saw things. He gave me a lot of perfect advice. He is a selfless man. I can’t say enough about how helpful and into what he was. It wasn’t like it was just a fly-by-night project to him. It was something that he really was passionate about. He understood what we were going through to a degree. Sometimes we finished a scene and Greg was in the corner crying,” I love you guys.” He was so passionate about what took place.
PR: It’s funny because then we’d laugh about what a little crybaby he was. But it’s true. ’cause we all are men. Men cry. Guess what? Men, they do cry.
I was tearing up watching the movie. You’re right.
PR: It’s ok, you’re still a man!
[Everyone laughs]
Paul, what kind of conversations did you have with the real Brent Buell to help shape your performance?
PR: He’s just a great guy. I love watching him interact with the guys. I could see that they respected each other. He listens to you, and he’s so intuitive. He catches me sometimes when I’m in an off-guard moment. He’s a very intuitive guy and a lover. And he’s the kind of guy that when these guys graduate from incarceration, and they’re out in the real world, he takes them into his own home to make sure they get on their feet.
Sean, I see that you starred in the documentary called Behind These Walls. Can you discuss how that helped and what else prepared you for this film?
SDJ: What ultimately prepared me for this film was the fact that I studied theater for over a decade and RTA (Rehabilitation Through the Arts) back when it first started. That pretty much equipped me and empowered me with the tools. About the documentary, it’s the same content of who I was and talking about experiences I actually had.
For Sean and Clarence, are there any other types of movies you would like to act in?
CDEM: For sure. I wanna do Star Trek, and I wanna do a Western. All sci-fi, any sci-fi. I wanna do that. Let’s go! Right. You got something in mind? You got some on deck for me?
[Everyone laughs]
I’ll do my best!
PR: I’m an acting whore. Send anything my way.
[Everyone laughs]
PR: Look. I love acting.
CDEM: Yeah, let’s go!
What is your favorite part of Breakin’ the Mummy’s Code?
CDEM: Oh my! Did you see Robin Thug? I did a Robin Thug in there. That was one of my favorite roles. Or when I ran back on stage and got the skull off the stage from Hamlet. That wasn’t even in the script. I left the skull on stage in my scene, and they started a whole new scene. I had to run out there and grab the prop! It was great. It worked.
PR: I love Dap looking for his mummy.
[They mimic the scene]
PR: So many good things. Remember Carmine? He was like, “There’s no more lines.” He was the grave digger and wasn’t happy about it in real life. But in the movie, he’s not about being the grave digger. ’cause he actually was the grave digger.
CDEM: That was his profession! Too funny. Those are things we should have filmed.
One of the exercises sees all of you walking around like zombies, which is pretty funny, and I also know Colman Domingo was on Fear the Walking Dead. So, can you talk about how that reference got worked into the movie?
CDEM: I didn’t even make that connection!
PR: I didn’t even think about that. We were doing act acting exercises, and Brent said, go on, pull some outta your bag. And so I’ve been acting with all these; that’s just pure improv there. walk around like a zombie walk around, like you just won the lottery and all this stuff.
CDEM: And we just made the connection between The Walking Dead when you said it!
PR: That was the first scene I got to do with these guys. And I knew we would have a good time because they were into it. “Zombies! Sure!” Sure. There was a lot of enthusiasm.
Were there any other kinds of exercises that you enjoyed that didn’t make it into the movie?
SDJ: Quite a few of them.
CDEM: Yeah, like when Preme kept messing the music up. There are a lot of scenes that I think could be a whole outtake movie.
SDJ: And they were cuts that I thought were amazing. But there’s just not enough time.
Are there any cut scenes that stand out?
CDEM: There was a scene where one of the guys from the yard comes up to me to tell me to discuss some yard business, but we’re doing a play, and Colmey gets really upset. Like, I don’t want him coming, nobody coming around here. And me and Colman get into it again. They cut that whole scene out. I think that was a really hard thing to cut.
Clarence, can you talk about what helped you chart the transformation of playing a version of yourself on screen, starting from a place of anger and becoming more vulnerable?
CDEM: Because it was really one aspect of my reality and a bunch of other experiences that I didn’t personally have, but I watched them happen, in my presence, I incorporated those experiences and those attitudes into the character that I played, which was not totally me. And I had to do it in a way that was shot right, too. So those are the things that I learned on set. I didn’t know that, but I learned it on set with guys like Colman and everybody else helping me. But yeah, it was great. The transformation was kind of simple because of all the experiences that I had to pull from.
Thank you so much for all of your time. The movie is great. I love it
Them: Thank you too, Robert.
SEE ALSO: Read our review of Sing Sing here
Robert Kojder is a member of the Chicago Film Critics Association and the Critics Choice Association. He is also the Flickering Myth Reviews Editor. Check here for new reviews, follow my Twitter or Letterboxd, or email me at MetalGearSolid719@gmail.com
