Craig Johnson chats about The Skeleton Twins, out on DVD and Digital HD now…
Harrison Pierce: Can you talk a little bit about the genesis of this project?
Craig Johnson: I co-wrote it with my buddy, Mark Heyman, while we were still grad students at N.Y.U. [New York University]. Mark actually knew someone who was involved in a student-teacher relationship [and] we thought that was fertile ground for a movie. In the finished version of the movie, that story is more backstory but, in our original drafts, that element was kind of the whole story. But once we gave the “student” character a sister, we started falling in love with this brother-sister relationship and that became the heart of the movie. And that really came from my relationship with my own sister; the way [we] connect is through a dark, macabre, somewhat twisted sense of humor. And we wanted the [characters] connecting through their sense of humor, especially considering that they’re going through dark periods in their lives.
HP: When you were initially writing the characters of Maggie and Milo, did you have any particular actors in mind?
CJ: We thought it would be a hoot to have Maggie Gyllenhaal and Jake Gyllenhaal. But we were just film students at the time, so we never really permitted ourselves to think too much about actors because that seemed like putting the cart before the horse.
HP: Audiences know Bill Hader best from his more broadly comedic work on TV’s “Saturday Night Live” and in movies like Superbad. What made him the perfect actor for this more serious role as Milo?
CJ: To be fully honest, he was not on my radar and I fully credit my casting director, Avy Kaufman, for suggesting him. She brought him up and I said, “Well, I love Bill on ‘Saturday Night Live’…” But I’d only seen those more broadly drawn characters that he’s so brilliant at doing. But Avy had seen him at a table read for a drama opposite Bradley Cooper, Kate Winslet, Greta Gerwig, and Paul Dano – all these powerhouse dramatic actors – and, out of that group, she was struck by how moving and heartbreaking and subtle Bill was. So I said, “Then I’d love to meet him.” So Bill and I met at a bar in the East Village and we just hit it off. I realized when he sat down that I’d never heard his real speaking voice before; I’d only heard him through these broad characters. And he just had this sweetness to him and this kind of nerdiness and vulnerability. And he was a huge movie geek and I’m a huge movie geek, so we connected over that. On the page, Milo has a certain level of bitchiness and a sardonic streak and a brattiness – and [Bill] still got that in the movie – but when I met Bill, I realized he has this sweetness and vulnerability that the character needs in order to really sing and have the audience with him. So I didn’t even have him read from the script; I just left that meeting at the bar and said, “I want him.”
HP: Was Bill instrumental in Kristen Wiig, his former “Saturday Night Live” costar, coming on board?
CJ: It was totally separate. I knew that they knew each other and we had talked about other actors for the role of Maggie but when the idea of Kristen hit me, I just couldn’t get it out of my head. I was obsessed with making it happen. So I mentioned to Bill that we were going to talk to Kristen and…because they’re very dear friends in real life, she mentioned to him that she had been sent the script. But he was very neutral with her; he was very Switzerland about it. [Imitating Hader] “Great. Well, good luck. I hope you like it.” So they weren’t sure how the other felt about doing it [together]. I had lunch with Kristen and she was like, “I’d really love to do this but only if Bill would want to do it with me.” Then I was having dinner with Bill that same night and he was like, “What’s going on [with Kristen]?” And I told him, “She wants to do it but only if you want to do it with her.” And he was like, “Why wouldn’t I want to do it with her?!” At that moment, I realized, this might happen.
HP: When you’re directing two expert improvisers like Bill and Kristen, do you feel like you have to let them riff?
CJ: I wanted to let them riff. I really like it when you have actors who can improvise [and] put things in their own words here and there. I think it makes the whole movie seem more authentic and natural-feeling. And I would just be an idiot to be working with Kristen Wiig and Bill Hader and not have them improvise. But most segments were pretty written and the improvisation just comes here and there. Except…there were a few moments I said, “Let it rip.” Like, the scene where they’re in the dentist’s office and they’re high on nitrous. I just told them to make each other laugh. So that was sort of all them.
HP: Were there any times you had to rein them in?
CJ: More in the editing. In that same [dentist’s office] scene they did some hilarious stuff and we were on set with tears rolling down our faces because we were laughing so hard. In early cuts of the movie, I had a lot of that material in it. But we found that, to people watching the movie, it felt too much like two professional comedians doing a bit, rather than an authentic, drug-fueled goofing off [between] a real brother and sister. So, even though that stuff is hilarious and it broke my heart to cut it out, it was important to do because the main goal was to make sure this felt like a real brother and sister.
HP: When I interviewed Bill Hader, I asked him who was the most likely to crack the other one up on set, Kristen or him, and he said it was actually Luke Wilson who had everyone laughing. What was it like having Luke in the mix?
CJ: He was a total surprise in terms of his improvisational skills and…he just understood his character [Lance] very well: this guileless, sweet, not-the-sharpest- tool-in-the-shed kind of guy. So he would improvise within the character just perfectly. And I think it was a huge surprise to Bill and Kristen just how hysterical he was. And I was so excited to work with Luke. I’ve been a fan of his since the Wes Anderson days.
HP: Ty Burrell and Joanna Gleason also shine in the movie playing very tricky, not necessarily likable supporting roles. In your opinion, what defines a great supporting actor?
CJ: A lot of times, supporting roles can slip into either two-dimensional caricature or…there’s no personality. A good supporting actor finds the gray area within a character and I think that certainly applies to both Ty Burrell and Joanna Gleason. Both of their characters are difficult and it’s very easy to judge [them]. They both have a lot of unlikable qualities. But I was determined to find actors that brought another layer to that. Ty Burrell is known for playing America’s most lovable dad on “Modern Family” so that persona is helpful when you cast him in a role where he plays a character with a very unlikable past. You see the humanity in him because you just like Ty Burrell so much.
HP: Bill Hader is known for playing the very popular and very flamboyant gay character Stefon on “Saturday Night Live” but here he plays a more nuanced gay character. On set, did you ever find yourself directing him to play it “more gay” or “less gay”?
CJ: Bill has a lot of gay friends whom I think he took some cues from in terms of finding Milo’s voice and finding his physicality. [But] the characters are so different. We always said, “The only thing that Stefon and Milo have in common is that they’re gay.” Other than that, they’re from completely different planets. I think we just had one conversation that we didn’t want Milo’s haircut to look like Stefon’s at all but that was it [laughs]. We also discussed the fact that [Milo] being gay is just one shading of his persona. In fact, most of the issues in his life – i.e. struggling with depression – really don’t stem from the fact that he’s gay. They stem from other elements in his life. So once we were in it, Bill had fleshed out this character that was clearly a gay man but that wasn’t the whole point of him. And when we were shooting, I didn’t ever have to adjust that part of it at all, which speaks to what a tremendous actor Bill is.
HP: Whether Ty Burrell’s character’s intentions were pure or not, he was the first person to offer Milo important words of encouragement. Was there a seminal teacher in your life whose encouragement gave you the confidence to do what you do?
CJ: I point directly to my high school drama teacher, Teri Grimes. I recently went to my twentieth high school reunion and I saw her there. I was just flooded with warmth for this woman who took this geeky teenager under her wing. I was really into theatre as a kid and that was how I was able to express myself and…be fully who I am. And I completely credit her for that.
HP: Now that you’ve had some success in the business, do you get people trying to slip you scripts the way Ty’s character does with Milo?
CJ: There have been maybe one or two instances of that but it’s [mostly] a lot of people hitting you up on Facebook. “Hey, I’m a writer starting out. Would you mind having coffee with me? I’d love to pick your brain.” I actually really love doing that but you reach a saturation point where you have to manage it a little bit and I’m still trying to figure all of that out. I’m very lucky because I’m good friends with Mark Duplass, who was a producer on this movie and also starred in my first movie [True Adolescents (2009)]. He’s had a lot of success as a filmmaker and as an actor and he’s always been one I can go to with questions [like], “Hey, how do you manage this?”
HP: The Skeleton Twins received great reviews from critics. Are reviews something you generally pay attention to or do you avoid them?
CJ: For the first few days, I would fire up RottenTomatoes.com. “Okay, where are we at now? Oh, we went down a few notches.” But I tried not to be obsessed with it… because that stuff can just get into your brain and it’s not good. I could read a lovely review of the movie – and it really did get lovely reviews – but if I even encountered one sentence that criticized a part of it, that’s what would stick in my brain. I didn’t need that.
HP: What are you working on next?
CJ: I have a couple scripts I’ve written and I’m trying to push those boulders up the hill. I [also] just directed an episode of “Looking” for HBO. That was my first episodic directing gig, which was an absolute blast. Television is so good these days. I’d love to keep directing TV in between movie projects.
HP: Finally, the “Nothing’s Gonna Stop Us Now” lip-sync scene is many people’s favorite in the movie. In real life, do you have a favorite power ballad to lip-sync or sing to around the house?
CJ: I’m a child of the ‘80s so [‘80s songs] do have a lot of resonance with me. If I’m driving, I can really crank “Man in Motion” by John Parr from “St. Elmo’s Fire.” That’s a good, triumphant ‘80s ballad. They really made them triumphant in the ‘80s. And obviously Journey never disappoints, with “Faithfully” and “Don’t Stop Believin’.”
The Skelenton Twins is out on DVD today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ONsp_bmDYXc&list=PL18yMRIfoszFLSgML6ddazw180SXMvMz5
